Kit 14125

The Family Line of Georgius/George Maule, possibly of Panemure, Scotland, then migrating to England.


DNA Test Kit# 14125

Haplogroup R-Y4354

Please visit the Maule Family Website

PANEL 1 (1-12)
Locus 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
DYS# 393 390 19* 391 385a 385b 426 388 439 389-1 392 389-2
Alleles 13 24 15 11 10 14 12 12 11 12 13 27
PANEL 2 (13-25)
Locus 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
DYS# 458 459a 459b 455 454 447 437 448 449 464a** 464b** 464c** 464d**
Alleles 16 9 10 11 11 25 15 17 31 15 15 16 18

PANEL 3 (26-37)

Locus 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37
DYS# 460 GATA H4 YCA II a YCA II b 456 607 576 570 CDY a CDY b 442 438
Alleles 11 11 19 19 17 15 18 17 36 37 12 12


Family Gedcom Outline

1st Generation

George Maule aka Georgius
b. 1580
Spouse. Margery Cropper aka Croper

2nd Generation

Thomas Maule
b. 1606
Spouse. Susannah Throckmorton

3rd Generation

Thomas Maule
b. 1643
d. 1724
m. October 6, 1713
Spouse. Sarah Kendall

4th Generation

Thomas Maule
b. 1720
d. 1765
m. August 10, 1753
Spouse. Zillah Walker

5th Generation

Daniel Maule
b. 1754
d.1810
m. March 14, 1766
Spouse. Hannah Brown

6th Generation

Israel Maule
b. 1778
d. 1828
m. May 5, 1801
Spouse. Ann Garrigues

7th Generation

William Maule
b. 1804
d. 1875
m. May 6, 1828
Spouse. Mary Randolph

8th Generation

Edward Randolph Maule

Edward Randolph Maule
b. 1831
d. 1910
m. February 11, 1861
Spouse. Caroline Hartman Weyman

9th Generation

Randolph Weyman Maule

Randolph Weyman Maule
b. 1861
d. 1934
m. February 24, 1855
Spouse. Mary J. Hickey

10th Generation

Randolph Alosysius Maule

Randolph Alosysius Maule
b. 1890
d. 1955
m. July 14, 1909
Spouse. Teresa Katherine Foley

11th Generation

Edward Randolph George Maule
b. 1923
d. 2002
m. April 27, 1946
Spouse. Jennie Elisabeth Zappone

12th Generation

James Edward Maule

Living

20 thoughts on “Kit 14125

  1. I’m working on my oldest common ancestor. Currently, it is a George Manly of Devon, UK who was born about 1624 and appears in the FamilySearch.org database. He was the father of Lazarus Manley, who was the father of John Manley Sr of Dorset, the father of John Manley Jr, Ira Manley (these are Dorset, VT folks) , and so on to me, Jim Manley of Claremont, CA.

    But a Georgius Maule of Buckinghamshire, UK has appeared because of a DNA match My deep-clade haplotype is R1b1b2a1b4c1; Kit 14125 is that minus the last “1” — suggesting a close connection). I am wondering whether there is a family relation there and possibly to Patrick Maule and the Lairds of Panmure. Anything light you can shed on Lazarus’ father and grandfather would be most welcome. The key is whether there is a connection to George Manly about 1624.

    My GEDCOM, etc., can be found in the “Manley” project on FamilyDNA.com. Many thanks for any light you can shed on this!

    Best Regards,
    Jim Manley

    Best,
    Jim Manley

  2. Jim,

    Without your Kit number I cannot figure out how to find your gedcom on familydna.com. In fact, that site is a “hitfarm” site without any information. So I went to manleydna.com where the spreadsheets are and I think you may be 98092. Close deep clade, variant markers. Can you give me a URL to the gedcom?

    Jim

  3. My apologies! It’s only been a year since your kind reply — which I have just now picked up as my attention and enthusiasm has been re-stoked with the many new tools on this webiste.

    My Kit # is 181005. I was struck by how close the haplotypes were. Mine is R1b1a2a1a1b3c1. Your kit is R1b1a2a1a1b3c. That shows I am a descendent. The question is how and in what way.

    Best,
    Jim

    1. Jim, in order to upload your gedcom, you need to send it to me. I will add it to the all in one, listed by your kit number.

  4. Hey Jim, just found these records available @ http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/Search/results.aspx
    Not sure if you have them already or not, but thought I’d share, just in case.

    Interesting to me is the fact that the DNA seems proof positive that a good number of our project members are positively Northern Ireland/Ulster.. so, in short, Scot Irish. Once more, seemingly indicative of a connection back there somewhere between these surnames.

    1 MAULD (MAULE) MARY 16/01/1694 MRS, DAUGHTER LAWFUL TO THE DECEASED MR. HENDRIE M., OF BALMAKELLIE, [SECOND SON TO PATRICK MAULE, EARL OF PANMURE] TESTAMENT TESTAMENTAR AND INVENTORY; INCLUDES EIK DATED 26/12/1700 EDINBURGH COMMISSARY COURT CC8/8/80

    2 MAULE HELLENOUR 11/03/1665 RELICT OF MR. ALEXANDER MORIESON OF PRESTONGRANGE TESTAMENT TESTAMENTAR AND INVENTORY EDINBURGH COMMISSARY COURT CC8/8/71

    3 MAULE GEORGE 06/09/1676 EARL OF PANMURE …INCLUDES EIK CONFIRMED 30/01/1678 BRECHIN COMMISSARY COURT CC3/4/7B

    4 MAULE EUPHAN 19/07/1671 OR EUPHAME, AND ANDREW PATERSON, IN AUCHINLEK, HER SPOUSE … BRECHIN COMMISSARY COURT CC3/4/7A

    5 MAULE CHRISTIAN 21/02/1570 RELICT OF DAVID BLANTYRE, OF LEGISLAND TESTAMENT DATIVE AND INVENTORY EDINBURGH COMMISSARY COURT CC8/8/2

    6 MAULE WILLIAME 21/06/1620 MERCHANT, BURGESS OF EDINBURGH TESTAMENT DATIVE AND INVENTORY EDINBURGH COMMISSARY COURT CC8/8/50

    7 MAULE HARIE 22/07/1652 SOMETIME KEEPER OF THE SIGNET TESTAMENT DATIVE AND INVENTORY EDINBURGH COMMISSARY COURT CC8/8/66

    8 MAULE GEORGE 22/10/1686 EARL OF PANMURE TESTAMENT TESTAMENTAR & INVENTORY BRECHIN COMMISSARY COURT CC3/3/7

    9 MAULE PATRICK 25/02/1664 EARL OF PANMURE TESTAMENT DATIVE & INVENTORY BRECHIN COMMISSARY COURT

  5. Interesting! Thank you so much. I look forward to tracing the individuals you mentioned. You have also got me thinking. The closeness of the haplotypes between my kit and 14125 led me to think the descent must have been direct from the 1580 Maule via Thomas. But might it be that the 1580 Maule was not the MRCA? In which case there is an older MRCA from whom both Georgius Maule (b 1580) and George Manly (b 1624) are descended.

    But is that consistent with the closeness of the two haplotypes which differ by the “1”. (R1b1a2a1a1b3c1 – mine; R1b1a2a1a1b3c – #14125). The “1” certainly means “descendent of”. But does it mean “direct descendant of”? or “in the family who share the MRCA”? Inquiring minds need to know. 🙂
    Best,
    Jim (of Claremont)

  6. Hello Jim and Cathy,
    We’ve always thought that Maule/Mauley/Manley/Manly/and so on were the same family. Now we’re making progress. The other day I asked ftdna to run some more tests, including one that will determine what number follows the “final c” in my haplotype.On the other other hand, when I ask ftdna’s online match system to match my DYS values, I come up empty. I can’t figure out how to ask the ftdna software to match the DYS values of your kit and my kit. I went to ysearch.org (to which I uploaded my info from ftdna some time ago) but there are no Manleys listed. There are many, many people with the same haplotype, all with very different names, so I’m not sure how far this will get us. For example, someone with the name Mamedaliev from Kazakhstan is R1b1a2a1a1b3c. Incidentally, not only are there other people who have a “1” after the final c, there are people with an “a” after that “1”! I think the MRCA for this haplotype is back many years. That’s why I did the test for L562, a marker suggested by researchers at the R1b-U152 project. They think that marker will indicate an MRCA at about 2500 years ago. So, I think that Maule, Manly, and hundreds of other surnames go back to some guy 2500 years ago. Progress, but not enough, yet. — Jim

  7. HELLO! I am so pleased to find someone working to trace the “Manley, Manly” family back as far as possible. I can trace back to George Manley (1624), then William I. Manley, then John Manley, etc.. etc… One question.. The family crest? How far or where can you trace that back to?? And what does the hand signify?

    Thanks and God Bless,

    Brian L. Manley
    Muskogee, OK
    born 3/26/1979

  8. @ Jim Maule and Brian Manley,

    Many thanks for your posts! I’ve been a bit inactive but I’m delighted to rejoin this thread.

    For Brian, George Manly (b. 1624) had two sons who emigrated to the US: Lazarus and William. I’m descended from Lazarus. Hi Cousin!

    For Jim Maule, I’ll do the M228.2 test and that will fill in the “*” in my hapoltype R1b1a2a1a1b3c1*. I appreciate your comments about the other names (including the one from Khazakstan) who are close hapolotype matches. This is a little more complicated than I thought. 🙂

    I haven’t been able to find anything on the parents of George Manly. Who knows, maybe it was the son of Georgius Maule, Thomas(b. 1606). He would have been 18 in 1624.

    Best,
    Jim Manley (of Claremont)

  9. @ Jim Maule – Jim, I’d like to take the test you recommended. In the available upgrades is one called “Y-37To111” and promises to show connections of the sort we’re interested in between Georgius Maule (1580) and George Manly (1624). Would this produce the DYS info you are looking for? Have you taken this test? Or one that would produce fruitful results? It does seem to promise showing a very distant common ancestor. It also says that it reports matches to other kits if everyone has released (given permission) to ftdna to do so. Have you done so? I will do so if I haven’t done so already. 🙂

    The cost is currently shown as $188. That’s fine – if it the right test!

    Jim Manley (of Claremont, CA)

  10. @ anyone – I’m using my iPad which doesn’t read Flash, but I’m inclining to the M228.2 test rather than the 37t to 111 but I can’t order it with the iPad. I’m traveling and need a desktop …

  11. I went ahead and had the M228.2 test done and the results are projected to be back August, 19th. It’s a bit beyond that now, but certainly soon. My hope is that I can find is better connection to Georgius Maule through George Manly of Talaton, Devonshire. Best,
    Jim Manley
    Claremont, CA

  12. Hi Jim I have just started on my family tree and happened to come across these posts. I believe that we are related as I am a descendant of George and Elizabeth. I am the daughter of Robert and Katherine Manley, granddaughter of Albert S and May Mary Manley.

  13. Oops. This site didn’t tell me there had been recent posts. Jim, I don’t know the answer to your question. In the group that is most active on FTDNA to which I belong (the R1b-U152 project), they ask me from time to time to test something. The last bunch, going backwards: Z142 (turned out negative), Z49 (positive), L20 (negative), L2 (positive), M160 (negative), M126 (negative), U152 (positive). Apparently U152 is a major separation point. The haplogroup (they keep changing the sequencing) now is R1b1a2a1a1b3c3 (shorthand R-L2). That is FTDNA nomenclature. I wish I understood the nomenclature better than I do. In the nomenclature of the Int’l Soc’y of Genealogists (a different group) it comes out R1b1b2a1a2d3. Perhaps it would be helpful to contact that group on FTDNA to see if there’s any matching possibilities.

  14. Dear Debbie and Jim, Oops for me, too. I don’t get a notification and don’t check too often. It’s always a pleasure to find new postings though. I’ll check back with FTDNA but I think I did take the next test (the 228?) and it came back negative. That left me puzzled.

    Jim, I appreciate your detailed posting, and the one earlier with the idea of a more remote common ancestor, perhaps 2,500 years ago. But it would be nice to see a more direct connection between the Maule’s and the Manleys. I remember my Dad joking about “Mrs. Maule” – calling my Mom that as though he knew there were a connection. Wish I could ask him.

    Debbie, take a look at my family tree blog. I think we can tell what our connection is. Do you come from George’s son Lazarus (as I do) or William?
    Best,
    Jim Manley (of Claremont, California)

  15. For Jim Maule,
    Thanks again for listing the tests you took. I’m a U-152 and in fact an L-20 for which you were negative. I am an L-2 though. It’s a big subclade! The tests I’m eligible for are L739, CTS4069, F1948, L144, CTS6911, F1230, F2421, and CTS8178. Each is $39 currently, but I don’t know where to begin. I’d like to see how close we are to each other, but if you are not an L-20, it may be that we’ve gone as far as we can, but let me know! Best, Jim
    PS If the moderator has a suggestion, that’s great too.

  16. A quick note to you Jim Maule,
    Your current haplotype is R-Z49; mine is L-20. These are the new shorthand ways of representing that long string. We’re both a part of the big R1b group and in fact both a part of U-152 and L2. But we have a slightly different haplotype. That might imply a 2,500 year back common ancestor. I’m trying to link the Maule and Manl(e)y families more recently, say between the late 1500 hundreds and early 1600 hundreds. That’s looking less likely. If there were paternity, it would show closer DNA. Tibor Fehér writes about the U-152 group. (Google his name and U-152.) He says the U-152 group with the L2’s (and L-20’s) was in Europe 1500 to 1000 BC. They went as far as Scandanavia and are possibly connected to the Biturges Celtic tribe. Go figure!
    Best,
    Jim

  17. Hi Jim Manley,
    Here’s an update. From Z-49 I go S-8183 Y-4356, Y-4353, Y-4354, S12993. I’ve also done the Big-Y but I haven’t yet figured out what it means though the data has been sent to the various projects to which I belong (including Tibor’s U-152). I do have 17 unique SNPs. In terms of matches, FTDNA keeps updating a list but there are so many names that I cannot figure out the significance. The Big Y tree has me branching off all alone from Z49.
    As for where we branch off, I think it’s more recent than 2500 years ago. I think we’ll eventually discover that mutations occur more quickly (that’s why only identical twins look alike, I think). But I think we branch off about 1200 to 1500 years ago. I don’t think it’s as late as the 1500s or 1600s.
    Jim

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